News of Lyft going public pulled ride-hailing into prominence in the news. On the topic of ride-hailing services and their impacts on transportation in Canadian cities, UTTRI Director Professor Eric Miller gave nine interviews for CBC radio morning shows across the country on April 1st.
For one of these interviews, CBC Radio, Vancouver – The Early Edition, with host Stephen Quinn, a sound recording is available online. The April 1st interview with Eric Miller runs from 2:35 to 8:15.
An unofficial transcript of the interview is posted below.
(CBC) More people are reaching for their phones in communities across the country, using an app to order a car rather than waiting for a bus or calling a cab. Lyft and Uber are both active in Canada, except for here in Vancouver. On Friday, Lyft became the first ride-hailing company to be publicly traded on Wall Street.
Eric Miller is a professor in the Department of Civil and Mineral engineering at the University of Toronto and Director of its Transportation Research Institute.
(CBC) What does it say about the state of the ride-hailing industry, that Lyft has now gone public?
(EM) It means they’re in the big time. These are no longer niche services. They’re very much part of daily lives for millions of people in many, many cities. So I think it’s quite understandable that they’re trying to get into a more stable business model. One way or the other, I think they’re here to stay. Even if they’re not in Vancouver yet, I think they’re coming.
(CBC) How has the conversation on ride hailing changed since companies like Uber and Lyft first showed up on the scene?
(EM) When they first showed up, they caught cities by surprised. Certainly here in Toronto, Uber just showed up. And it took the city quite a while to catch up and try to figure out what to do with this new “beast.” I think the conversation in virtually every city around the world is “How do we manage this service? What does it mean for us? How can we regulate it? How much should we regulate it? So that it’s impacts are beneficial and improve transportation in the city, rather than making it worse one way or the other.
(CBC) Every time I’m in Toronto, it’s demonstrated to me how integrated into the transportation network ride-hailing services have become. Do you see it the same way?
(EM) Yes, absolutely. Particularly among the millennials, but more generally, it is just part of the scene now. And I think people are sorting things out. Most of the people we looked at who use Uber also have a transit pass. So they’re juggling things. When transit makes sense, they use transit. When transit’s not available, they use Uber. What we’re seeing, I think, is fewer and fewer people necessarily need to buy a car any more. They’re renting a car, minute by minute, ride by ride as they need it. So it’s definitely changing the way we view transportation and how we travel through the city.
(CBC) And initially, where was the pushback coming from in Toronto when Uber showed up?
(EM) Well of course, the taxi industry, not just in Toronto but everywhere, the conventional taxi industry was taken as much by surprise I think as cities were. Clearly these new services are very much challenging conventional taxis. Transit properties are also very concerned that if the system is not regulated properly and if we can’t find ways for public transit and the private companies to work together, many transit companies could be very challenged by this as well.
(CBC) Here in BC the taxi industry is obviously a major concern. The concern here is that unlike other provinces BC would require Uber and Lyft drivers to have a Class 4 licence, that commercial drivers who carry passengers would have to have. Have you seen any road blocks put up elsewhere, to try to slow down the growth or even the introduction of these services?
(EM) It really varies from city to city. We do see some other cities pushing back, with somewhat similar regulations. I personally think that cities do need to be careful, and it’s not clear why we should have such an unlevel playing field in cities where these services are operating. The business model’s different, but they’re providing the same service as regular taxis. So I think there has to be an evolution to ensure safety and insurance and reliability among these services, in the same way we ask of our regular taxi companies. So I think BC’s wise to be moving carefully in this regard, in terms of how to regulate these services.
(CBC) And what is the conversation generally among experts about just how ride-sharing should be regulated? I know there’s a patchwork of regulations right now. But are there measures that municipalities should be putting into place?
(EM) I don’t think there’s a strong consensus on that. Different people are experimenting with it, and I think we’re going to see that experimentation for some time. To me, the biggest thing is to figure out how to integrate these services with public transit so that we can perhaps focus our public transit resources in corridors and markets where transit is cost-effective and competitive, and encouraging these new mobility services, the ride-sharing services, to focus maybe more on suburban areas, areas where transit’s just not cost-effective. I think there’s a real opportunity for a win-win in terms of the ride-hailing services to deal with what we call the “first mile / last mile” problem – getting people to and from transit, particularly in suburban areas. Or just suburban travel. We don’t really have the solutions yet, but that’s where most municipalities are trying to head.